The kittens "didn't actually hurt anyone"? (major spoilers)

#1

In the epilogue, Milgram says, “…no one actually did get hurt.”

While this may be true for the other villagers, Milgram’s goons actively try to kill Frogatto, from even before the moment he actually starts to fight anyone. He said he would save the town – that doesn’t necessarily entail fighting or killing anyone.

The bomber over the bridge attempts to kill Frogatto before he’s even met any of them. While it’s true that Frogatto does have a part in starting the fight in the tunnel, he’s already been provoked at this point, by the bomber’s previous attempt on his life.

Finally, the ninja cat in the elder’s house decides to try to kill Frogatto on little more than a whim – “venting frustration” – even though he has no clue who Frogatto is or what he’s done in the rest of the village.

So while it is true that Frogatto “clobbered a few people”, it’s in justifiable self-defense – since they started trying to kill him first.

It also bears questioning as to why it was necessary to go in and take over all the townspeople’s houses for their “mayor’s” faults. Maybe they resisted; who knows. Either way, though, the cats’ willingness to resort to lethal force in opposing Frogatto seems to contradict Milgram’s claim that they didn’t do any harm – at the least, we’d expect Frogatto to comment on it.

What do y’all think of this?

#2

I was thinking that Milgram’s line was intended to be tongue in cheek and not literal but I could be wrong.

#3

Well, if it was, Frogatto took it literally, with his response: “I did notice that. It kind of piqued my suspicions.”

Frogatto ought to know better than anyone, though, that that isn’t true – and he shouldn’t feel sorry for his actions at all.

#4

::slight_smile: I think “all is grey in frogatto morality.” Mostly.

Milgram isn’t an out-and-out “bad guy”, but he is a bit of a kingpin of sorts. He’s used to having authority, and he will push people around to achieve his ends, sometimes hurting them a little bit, contrary to his plea of innocence. What’s fortunate for everyone is that Milgram’s intentions are generally benevolent.

There are a number of things in frogatto that are much more black and white, morally speaking, but we haven’t run into them yet.

Well, if it was, Frogatto took it literally, with his response: "I *did* notice that. It kind of piqued my suspicions."

Frogatto ought to know better than anyone, though, that that isn’t true – and he shouldn’t feel sorry for his actions at all.

Frogatto, in my estimation, has a few notes of the classic “trickster hero” to him. Specifically, he’s rather good at schmoozing people, and telling them what they want to hear - often that means contradicting what he said, or what happened, before. He usually actually believes what he’s saying at the moment, rather than lying outright - and this could potentially be a character flaw that comes back to bite him at some point.

He’s of the opinion that this is generally a good thing, since telling people what they want to hear can often loosen up other people’s standpoints on stuff and talk them into things.

#5

I know this thread is about a month old, but it occurred to me that Milgram could defend himself this way, IF we assume that one of his goons overheard Frogatto’s conversation with the bird:

  1. Frogatto had already decided to attack Milgram’s followers before they ambushed him at the bridge.

  2. Preemptive strikes against someone known to be planning to attack you are, arguably, justified.

  3. Therefore, the ambushes they set for Frogatto are, arguably, justified.

Of course, there’s a big IF involved.

#6

That’s just the thing, though; he didn’t decide to attack Milgram’s cats, he decided to rescue the town. That doesn’t necessarily entail fighting or attacking anyone.

Even if he did plan to attack them, that doesn’t mean that trying to kill him is automatically a good idea, or that it’s morally justifiable.

Furthermore, the ninja cat – presumably one of Milgram’s higher lieutenants, judging by his uniform and that he’s the one talking to the elder – decides to try to kill Frogatto on a whim, before he even really knows who he is. You can’t argue that that’s a ‘pre-emptive strike’, or even self-defense. Even after that, Frogatto didn’t kill him; he let him leave (after being trounced).

I can accept the reason why Frogatto didn’t say anything about it to Milgram, but the fact is that the villains here, except maybe Milgram himself, don’t seem to really fall into a grey area.

#7

Good points, all of them! That brings us back to Jetrel’s explanation: Frogatto is a “trickster hero.”

#8

As a storyline point, I’m toying with the idea of the kittens having a baseless and undeserved dislike of frogatto, which is shared by all of them since each variety of kitty is basically a group of mass-produced clones of each other (preferably done via ridiculous, factory-like machines, rather than the usual “test-tube/lab” type setting).

They’re predisposed to just be mean to him, because they’re simply bothered by his existence.

Dave was inclined to have them all be afraid of him, having exaggerated him into a “giant mutant destroyer frog”, but I’d rather have them just dislike him. In part, I think the trope of “someone doing such badass stuff that the enemy mooks think he’s physically much more imposing than he actually is” is both a rather clich?d trope, and I also think we use up what little currency the trope has in humor, by using it as that first joke for milgram.

If we play the same joke more than once, it will lose “teh funny” by the time we get there.